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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meetting 2020.02.11 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html">design meetting 2020.02.11</a></h3>

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<a name="187949855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187949855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187949855">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Meeting will be in about 50 minutes, but I thought I'd at least start by linking some resources and maybe thinking about a tentative agenda. Will probably be off and on until 4</p>



<a name="187950246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950246">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(potential) agenda items so far:</p>
<ul>
<li>Sprint planning (15-20 minutes)</li>
<li>Long term planning (10-15 minutes)</li>
<li>Issue triage (5-10 minutes)</li>
<li>rustc integration</li>
<li>tables with/without environment (and/or delaying environment goals)</li>
<li>Maybe <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>'s "recursive solver" idea?</li>
</ul>



<a name="187950294"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950294" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950294">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Last few sort of will be up to what people want to talk about since they aren't planned</p>



<a name="187950301"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950301" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950301">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyone have anything else</p>



<a name="187950335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950335">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sprint planning doc: <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--At9sZrDqNr_seBV~Ei7v0jjTAg-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--At9sZrDqNr_seBV~Ei7v0jjTAg-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW">https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--At9sZrDqNr_seBV~Ei7v0jjTAg-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW</a></p>



<a name="187950419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sunjay Varma <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950419">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I won't be around for the meeting, but I thought I'd cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="220273">@Jane Lusby</span> in case she can make the meeting since she mentioned getting involved)</p>



<a name="187950534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950534">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Other collab resources with goals and such:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://hackmd.io/J1QG2rwERAKdknM_qgrhMA?both" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/J1QG2rwERAKdknM_qgrhMA?both">https://hackmd.io/J1QG2rwERAKdknM_qgrhMA?both</a></li>
<li><a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/WG-Traits-Planning-Meeting--At~56rNj2tNT~5xVF4YLd4ciAg-oDfr6ct8xx63HSAOOmIZX" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/WG-Traits-Planning-Meeting--At~56rNj2tNT~5xVF4YLd4ciAg-oDfr6ct8xx63HSAOOmIZX">https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/WG-Traits-Planning-Meeting--At~56rNj2tNT~5xVF4YLd4ciAg-oDfr6ct8xx63HSAOOmIZX</a></li>
<li><a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/2019.04.29-2019.06.10--At8TplYf7inMc5Q6IpOLuhgLAg-5gix1dpUSHKirVcEww5iw" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/2019.04.29-2019.06.10--At8TplYf7inMc5Q6IpOLuhgLAg-5gix1dpUSHKirVcEww5iw">https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/2019.04.29-2019.06.10--At8TplYf7inMc5Q6IpOLuhgLAg-5gix1dpUSHKirVcEww5iw</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="187950950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187950950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187950950">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll be there</p>



<a name="187951619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187951619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187951619">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey there, i'll be reading along as well <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<a name="187953001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187953001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187953001">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll be there as well</p>



<a name="187954099"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954099" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954099">(Feb 11 2020 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually had something urgent come up so I'll not be watching the chat live, but ill catch up as I get the opportunity</p>



<a name="187954476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954476">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span></p>



<a name="187954492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954492">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Meeting time :)</p>



<a name="187954567"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954567" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954567">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> you around?</p>



<a name="187954570"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954570" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954570">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep</p>



<a name="187954578"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954578" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954578">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm just catching up on what you wrote above</p>



<a name="187954750"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954750" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954750">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyways, seems like we have a lot of people around, which is exciting</p>



<a name="187954751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954751">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree with the overall agenda :)</p>



<a name="187954765"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954765" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954765">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm looking through the Spring Planning doc a bit now :)</p>



<a name="187954903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954903">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe a good question to start with is</p>



<a name="187954919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954919">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>how many people <em>are</em> here, and are we kind of trying to do our "first trial sprint" starting today?</p>



<a name="187954970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954970">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Uh, wave for this if you're here?</p>



<a name="187954988"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187954988" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187954988">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm mostly wondering if we can "allocate" tasks or what</p>



<a name="187955018"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955018" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955018">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sounds like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="220273">@Jane Lusby</span> is pretty interested but won't be around <del>today</del> until later</p>



<a name="187955046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955046">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="202314">@matprec</span> said they'll be around, so might just be late</p>



<a name="187955117"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955117" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955117">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK.</p>



<a name="187955124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955124">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>im around im just mostly looking away, just ping me if its about me and ill tab over</p>



<a name="187955138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955138">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Would a sprint require dividing up work at the start, or can we also decide what to focus on and leave some parts up for grabs?</p>



<a name="187955153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955153">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>urgent escalation from work came up</p>



<a name="187955196"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955196" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955196">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, I think it sort of depends on what people want to do</p>



<a name="187955202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955202">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Would a sprint require dividing up work at the start, or can we also decide what to focus on and leave some parts up for grabs?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think we can do a mix, but I think it'd be good to get a sense of "what we might do"</p>



<a name="187955235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955235">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Mostly I think there are so many things we <em>could</em> do, that the goal of a sprint is to let us focus on <em>doing</em></p>



<a name="187955248"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955248" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955248">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and concentrate the time spent charting our course)</p>



<a name="187955367"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955367" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955367">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, I was reading through the planning doc</p>



<a name="187955405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955405">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>and there seems to be a good mix of different levels of work to do</p>



<a name="187955423"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955423">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. a lot of mine are more beginner/simple</p>



<a name="187955446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955446">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me had to restart, now reading :)</p>



<a name="187955483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955483">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I <em>think</em> a lot of people are interested with the focus on seeing Chalk integrated into rustc</p>



<a name="187955499"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955499" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955499">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I was thinking that I should replace the vague bullet I wrote there</p>



<a name="187955503"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955503" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955503">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>with more of the details</p>



<a name="187955519"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955519" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955519">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I think it may be worth us putting a bit of discussion on this point</p>



<a name="187955733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955733">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>for example, I think there is probably some set of "minimal blockers" that absolutely block integration</p>



<a name="187955775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955775">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could imagine us trying to do a preliminary integration  where things aren't as efficient as they could be in some ways</p>



<a name="187955785"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955785" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955785">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me be more concrete</p>



<a name="187955811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955811">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>brb</p>



<a name="187955813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955813">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically one of the main tasks is "mapping between Rust types and chalk types"</p>



<a name="187955824"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955824" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955824">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are a few angles to this</p>



<a name="187955840"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955840">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., rust has some types chalk doesn't yet</p>



<a name="187955851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955851">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>chalk differs in a few details</p>



<a name="187955935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955935">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry, work distraction. Back</p>



<a name="187955940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955940">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I've largely described the intended mapping <a href="http://rust-lang.github.io/chalk/book/types/rust_types.html#mapping-to-rustc-types" target="_blank" title="http://rust-lang.github.io/chalk/book/types/rust_types.html#mapping-to-rustc-types">in this book chaptter</a></p>



<a name="187955971"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955971" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955971">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the <em>eventual</em> goal would be that chalk types <em>are</em> rustc types</p>



<a name="187955976"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955976" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955976">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>(they use the same library)</p>



<a name="187955997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187955997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187955997">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in the shorter term I had intended that the rustc types can be <em>mapped</em> to chalk types -- this indirection carries some cost -- and, interestingly, it can be "incomplete"</p>



<a name="187956003"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956003" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956003">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., maybe generator types cause a panic for now</p>



<a name="187956018"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956018" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956018">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>this would still let us integrate chalk in the intended way and start playing with it</p>



<a name="187956035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956035">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems to make sense to cut a beeline for that to me</p>



<a name="187956041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956041">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, as seen in the other thread, I tried to start upgrading the chalk integration in rustc. But ran into some roadblocks</p>



<a name="187956058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956058">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think the <em>eventual</em> goal would be that chalk types <em>are</em> rustc types</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Would that involve creating some <code>rustc_ty</code> crate that both chalk and rustc depend on?</p>



<a name="187956068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956068">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there are still a few things that we probably <em>do</em> have to fix, e.g. the use of binders in chalk+rustc should really line up</p>



<a name="187956075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956075">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>or would rustc use types re-exported from chalk?</p>



<a name="187956128"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956128" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956128">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="187956144"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956144" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956144">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>ultiamtely i'd want the latter</p>



<a name="187956154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956154">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I'm not sure how different those two things are</p>



<a name="187956165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956165">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean the "final shape" of library-ification is a bit up for grabs</p>



<a name="187956204"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956204" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956204">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think the end goal, whatever we name things, is that there is some "definition of types" that other libraries can use</p>



<a name="187956232"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956232" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956232">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it will probably wind up looking like a bit of a cross between rustc's types and chalk's types</p>



<a name="187956240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956240">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in particular, chalk's types have a very minimal set of variants, and I'm not yet convinced what the right set is)</p>



<a name="187956343"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956343" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> David Barsky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956343">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm reading along and present, but attending an ops meeting at work)</p>



<a name="187956348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956348">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not 100% sure what the "absolute blockers are" for integrating chalk-solve and rustc</p>



<a name="187956357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956357">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am not sure either</p>



<a name="187956360"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956360" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956360">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I expect I can list some, but I imagine part of it would be spending a bit of time just trying it and seeing</p>



<a name="187956374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956374">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm looking over the list of things I've written up in the past</p>



<a name="187956399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956399">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we may have to adjust the <code>RustIrDatabase</code> trait a bit</p>



<a name="187956544"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956544" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956544">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Goal of integrating rustc with the chalk-solve: (rustc/chalk)<ul>
<li>align chalk’s use of debruijn indices with how rust does it</li>
<li>remove existing chalk-engine integration from rustc</li>
<li>“try and see”</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="187956556"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956556" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956556">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's what I put in the paper doc anyway</p>



<a name="187956589"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956589" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956589">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is this something that can reasonably broken up into work from multiple people?</p>



<a name="187956593"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956593" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956593">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>It doesn't quite seem like it</p>



<a name="187956595"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956595" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956595">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the first two are pretty independent</p>



<a name="187956607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956607">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>the third one, less so :)</p>



<a name="187956634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956634">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I feel like looking at the third one may generate more tasks</p>



<a name="187956646"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956646" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956646">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Can you elaborate on the first point?</p>



<a name="187956663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956663">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="187956700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956700">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>so chalk's representation of something like <code>for&lt;'a, 'b&gt; fn(&amp;'a u32, &amp;'b u32)</code> introduces one "debruijn index" for <code>'a</code> and <code>'b</code></p>



<a name="187956752"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956752" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956752">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you kind of have <code>for&lt;2&gt; fn(&amp;'^0 u32, &amp;'^1 u32)</code></p>



<a name="187956777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956777">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., "introduce 2 variables, and <code>'^0</code> and <code>'^1</code> refers to those"</p>



<a name="187956804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956804">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in rustc we instead count "scopes" and then use a separate index</p>



<a name="187956829"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956829" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956829">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you'd have something like <code>for&lt;&gt; fn(&amp;'^0.0 u32, &amp;'^0.1 u32)</code></p>



<a name="187956842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956842">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>where <code>^0.0</code> means "the 0th variable from the innermost scope"</p>



<a name="187956855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956855">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>and <code>^0.1</code> means "the 1th variable from the innermost scope"</p>



<a name="187956879"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956879" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956879">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>we .. <em>might</em> be able to map back and forth between these, but I think it'll be very painful and complex</p>



<a name="187956882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956882">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's similar to how Placeholder(???) variables are done now</p>



<a name="187956883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956883">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>easier to align them</p>



<a name="187956901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956901">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I think I'd make chalk adopt rustc's scheme</p>



<a name="187956950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956950">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Wouldn't that be part of the 'type library' eventually?</p>



<a name="187956951"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956951" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956951">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>both because yes it's similar to placeholders (not coincidentally)</p>



<a name="187956960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956960">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>and because hacking on chalk is more pleasant and easier :P</p>



<a name="187956963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956963">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Wouldn't that be part of the 'type library' eventually?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="187956966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187956966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187956966">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are there pros/cons one way or the other?</p>



<a name="187957000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957000">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think there's any super deep pros/cons. I guess I find the rustc way a bit easier to think about most of the time.</p>



<a name="187957008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957008">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Honestly I wonder if we could move away from debruijn altogether, but that'd be for another day.</p>



<a name="187957035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957035">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>the pro of rustc's way is that it's less work for Chalk to change to their approach <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="187957045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957045">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes :)</p>



<a name="187957054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957054">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also, I do find it easier to thikn about "scopes" than individual variables</p>



<a name="187957069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957069">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>in traditional debruijn model there is no difference</p>



<a name="187957085"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957085" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957085">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>because <code>fn(a, b) -&gt; ...</code> is equivalent to <code>lambda a. lambda b. ...</code> or whatever</p>



<a name="187957140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957140">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that's not true in rust, we introduce multiple variables at once and there is no ordering to them</p>



<a name="187957174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957174">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I take it that the exact representation isn't that important to chalk?</p>



<a name="187957184"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957184" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957184">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>no, not really</p>



<a name="187957201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957201">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok, time check, we're at 25 minutes in</p>



<a name="187957236"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957236" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957236">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>so the other thing in <em>my</em> list of goals</p>



<a name="187957241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957241">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>was some rustc hacking</p>



<a name="187957248"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957248" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957248">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>to try and make rustc closer to chalk</p>



<a name="187957269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957269">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., refactoring things about <code>ty::Predicate</code></p>



<a name="187957300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957300">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span>makes sense to me</p>



<a name="187957306"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957306" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957306">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd just like to float that as something of interest, maybe good for someone who wants to start learning things about rustc</p>



<a name="187957358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957358">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but I also know next to nothing about rustc internals)</p>



<a name="187957376"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957376" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957376">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or maybe for <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125294">@Aaron Hill</span>, who is an experienced rustc hacker, but I'm guessing maybe they'd prefer to hack some on chalk)</p>



<a name="187957391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957391">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I get that it'll make the integration easier, but that sounds like something that's hard to complete in a sprint. Though it's probably easier to work on that in parallel</p>



<a name="187957395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957395">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't have any strong preference for what I'd like to work on</p>



<a name="187957412"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957412" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957412">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd just like to see chalk integration move forward, as it's blocking several things that I'm interested in :)</p>



<a name="187957414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957414">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I get that it'll make the integration easier, but that sounds like something that's hard to complete in a sprint. Though it's probably easier to work on that in parallel</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which thing are you referring to here, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125131">@detrumi</span> ?</p>



<a name="187957417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthew Jasper <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957417">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>e.g., refactoring things about <code>ty::Predicate</code></p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is currently the thing that's immediately blocking <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67513" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/67513">#67513</a></p>



<a name="187957437"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957437" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957437">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Interesting</p>



<a name="187957441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957441">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>er, yes</p>



<a name="187957448"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957448" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957448">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is exactly why I was motivated by it</p>



<a name="187957450"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957450" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957450">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> making rustc closer to chalk, like you wrote above</p>



<a name="187957458"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957458" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957458">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I hadn't seen that issue</p>



<a name="187957464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957464">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah, well, I had some "bite-sized pieces" that are sprint-sized</p>



<a name="187957555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957555">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>what kinds of changes would we be making to <code>ty::Predicate</code>?</p>



<a name="187957574"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957574" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957574">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>the first thing I would do is to remove the <code>Binder</code> and create a <code>forall</code> predicate</p>



<a name="187957587"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957587" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957587">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I can't tell you how many times I've done this in branches...)</p>



<a name="187957609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957609">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>the next step would perhaps be introducing implication</p>



<a name="187957627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957627">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then looking at being generic over types, not just lifetimes (generalizing binder so it can handle that)</p>



<a name="187957643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957643">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>other things we could do is to try and split goals/clauses</p>



<a name="187957660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957660">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I think might be useful but mostly for code cleanup</p>



<a name="187957680"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957680" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957680">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>other things we could do is to try and split goals/clauses</p>
</blockquote>
<p>er, goals/clauses/where-clauses? we use predicate to represent all of those right now</p>



<a name="187957699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957699">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's my first take, I might refine it "upon contact with the enemy" of trying to write the code, I guess</p>



<a name="187957743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957743">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>that said, it sort of intersects removing the leak-check..? I guess not in a strong way.</p>



<a name="187957842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957842">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>the first thing I would do is to remove the <code>Binder</code> and create a <code>forall</code> predicate</p>
</blockquote>
<p>to elaborate, right now all the predicates have binders in rustc, but that can be isolated into a specific <code>Predicate::ForAll</code>, which just consolidates and cleans up the code, to start</p>



<a name="187957864"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957864" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957864">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>so that you don't have to have everybody dealing with foralls when most folks don't need them</p>



<a name="187957885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957885">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, <code>Predicate::Forall(Predicate::Trait)</code>, for example?</p>



<a name="187957894"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957894" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957894">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ps <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> regarding time check, we kind of blew through that, do you think we should change focus..?)</p>



<a name="187957904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957904">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>instead of <code>Predicate::Trait(Binder&lt;_&gt;)</code></p>



<a name="187957907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957907">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>so, <code>Predicate::Forall(Predicate::Trait)</code>, for example?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><code>Predicate::ForAll(Binder&lt;Predicate&gt;)</code></p>



<a name="187957911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957911">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think step 1 is actually to intern predicates</p>



<a name="187957915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957915">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>so they are pointers...</p>



<a name="187957924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957924">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me should go looking at old branches</p>



<a name="187957930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957930">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I really have done this like 3 times :) I wonder if that work can be rebased...</p>



<a name="187957931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957931">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, I think probably the things to do after this meeting in regards to sprint would be:</p>
<ul>
<li>actually write down possible sprint "pieces" either in a wg-traits projects or chalk issue (or both)</li>
<li>tag those as "sprint"</li>
<li>If people see something that interests them, speak up and we can mentor</li>
<li>Make progress towards identifying rustc integration-blocking things to do</li>
</ul>



<a name="187957946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957946">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>And yeah, we should switch gears a bit</p>



<a name="187957969"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187957969" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187957969">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>one of the sprint items I made for myself is to try and better elaborate these plans</p>



<a name="187958024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958024">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am still excited about creating my skill-tree ;)</p>



<a name="187958031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958031">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, that leads into the next point</p>



<a name="187958037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958037">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe we can parcel out some of this rustc work and better specify it in a separate thread</p>



<a name="187958041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958041">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>long term planning :)</p>



<a name="187958058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958058">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like your skill-tree idea</p>



<a name="187958151"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958151" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958151">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>As nice as github issues + labels are, it's tough when there are "dependencies of dependencies"</p>



<a name="187958228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958228">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="187958234"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958234" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958234">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>it'll take some time to get it right</p>



<a name="187958238"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958238" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958238">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>but what I woudl like is that</p>



<a name="187958239"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958239" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958239">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>you come to wg-traits repo</p>



<a name="187958246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958246">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>and you are presented with a kind of overview</p>



<a name="187958250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958250">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>of "the things we are doing"</p>



<a name="187958260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958260">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>and you get a sense of our longer term plans</p>



<a name="187958277"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958277" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958277">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>obviously the further out it gets, the higher level</p>



<a name="187958288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958288">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>the skill-trees support links, colors, etc</p>



<a name="187958290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958290">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, I didn't add colors yet :)</p>



<a name="187958302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958302">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>but links work, so we can link to github issues etc</p>



<a name="187958307"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958307" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958307">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>colors would be like 22 sec of code</p>



<a name="187958326"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958326" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958326">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's think about those higher level goals?</p>



<a name="187958346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958346">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I think the interesting work here is not on the <em>skill tree presentation</em> but more just getting things out of people's heads and into a shared doc</p>



<a name="187958351"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958351" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958351">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that</p>



<a name="187958446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958446">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>fwiw <a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/skill-tree/blob/master/tree-data/traits.toml" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/skill-tree/blob/master/tree-data/traits.toml">this data</a> came from my doing my best  to think carefully over our goals</p>



<a name="187958449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958449">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>though it's not complete, I think</p>



<a name="187958476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958476">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>er, I guess I didn't transcribe everything frm my internal docs</p>



<a name="187958507"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958507" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958507">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I think we should be targeting a mix of:</p>
<ul>
<li>extending rustc with insights from chalk to support GATs, lazy norm</li>
<li>integrating chalk and improving it based on feedback from rustc</li>
<li>iterating towards a shared library</li>
</ul>



<a name="187958602"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958602" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958602">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, so I guess the "final" goal is having Chalk and rustc share types and Chalk be <em>the</em> Rust trait solver</p>



<a name="187958662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958662">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are quite a few features in Rust that Chalk doesn't support really at all yet</p>



<a name="187958664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958664">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is my goal, yes. but I think there's some doubt in my mind about hwo much chalk-engine will have to change to make that a reality</p>



<a name="187958677"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958677" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958677">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>There are quite a few features in Rust that Chalk doesn't support really at all yet</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and this, yes</p>



<a name="187958687"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958687" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958687">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is why I think it makes sense to be gradually moving both of them together</p>



<a name="187958694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958694">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Specialization, const generics are the first two that come to mind</p>



<a name="187958696"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958696" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958696">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>and avoid making perfect enemy of good</p>



<a name="187958735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958735">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>mm I'm more concerned about things like</p>



<a name="187958773"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958773" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958773">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>So we start with a subset of Rust this sprint, and iterate on that next sprint</p>



<a name="187958774"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958774" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958774">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>the Sized trait</p>



<a name="187958778"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958778" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958778">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>the Clone trait and how it interacts with closure types</p>



<a name="187958787"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958787" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958787">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I'm not <em>concerned</em></p>



<a name="187958793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958793">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's just that there is a certain amount of "work"</p>



<a name="187958796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958796">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that work lives in chalk-solve --</p>



<a name="187958804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958804">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it's part of the "defining semantics of Rust lowering"</p>



<a name="187958813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958813">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>these things belong on the skill tree for sure too</p>



<a name="187958826"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958826" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958826">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Specialization, const generics are the first two that come to mind</p>
</blockquote>
<p>but yes, these too :)</p>



<a name="187958856"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958856" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958856">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure how much const generics really interacts with chalk</p>



<a name="187958865"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958865" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958865">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, time check, 20 minutes left :)</p>



<a name="187958868"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958868" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958868">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should try to isolate that out into callbacks at most</p>



<a name="187958903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958903">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm not sure how much const generics really interacts with chalk</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess we have to see</p>



<a name="187958915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958915">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe the answer to "long term planning" is that it should be an ongoing conversation, mediated by trying to describe those plans in the form of a skill-tree?)</p>



<a name="187958921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958921">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least that was my thought of how to answer it</p>



<a name="187958970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958970">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so</p>



<a name="187958979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958979">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., that is perhaps a way to frame that "sprint item" that I wrote up</p>



<a name="187958988"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187958988" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187958988">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>"form the long term plans in more detail"</p>



<a name="187959001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959001">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and I'd be happy to have help on it :)</p>



<a name="187959026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959026">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., I'd expect to be posting thoughts here and refining it, and we can discuss what things mean and improve</p>



<a name="187959055"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959055" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959055">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'd just like to see chalk integration move forward, as it's blocking several things that I'm interested in :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(from <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125294">@Aaron Hill</span> earlier)<br>
I'm curious what these blocking things are and how we solve them</p>



<a name="187959086"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959086" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959086">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the biggest thing everyone wants it "GATs", but is there anything else?</p>



<a name="187959097"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959097" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959097">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>GATs and const generics, mainly</p>



<a name="187959121"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959121" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959121">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also opaque types/generators as they relate to auto traits</p>



<a name="187959127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959127">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>i.e., I'd expect to be posting thoughts here and refining it, and we can discuss what things mean and improve</p>
</blockquote>
<p>good to me</p>



<a name="187959171"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959171" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Aaron Hill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959171">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>as there are currently some cycle errors there that chalk may help with</p>



<a name="187959190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959190">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's also blocking some language features I'd like to see progress like implied bounds</p>



<a name="187959201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959201">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>which actually raises an interesting question</p>



<a name="187959214"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959214" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959214">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>as the current chalk lowering rules actually <em>support</em> implied bounds</p>



<a name="187959226"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959226" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959226">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>not urgent, but we may wish at some point to make chalk match rustc as close as possible, and isolate extensions</p>



<a name="187959290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959290">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok, let's move on for the last 15 minutes?</p>



<a name="187959368"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959368">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wanted to spend a couple minutes (this is mainly for <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>, but others can chime in too) just going over the issues I tagged as "needs triage"</p>



<a name="187959394"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959394" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959394">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(see <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/issue.20triage.20and.20labels" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/issue.20triage.20and.20labels">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/issue.20triage.20and.20labels</a>)</p>



<a name="187959428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959428">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I won't go over individual ones, I don't think</p>



<a name="187959431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959431">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me looks guility at the floor for not giving feedback :)</p>



<a name="187959435"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959435" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959435">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>since I summarize each over there</p>



<a name="187959509"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959509" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959509">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>do you want to discuss the details here?</p>



<a name="187959522"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959522" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959522">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>We can</p>



<a name="187959543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959543">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me look real quick</p>



<a name="187959562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959562">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>"refine RustIrDatabase interface"</p>



<a name="187959576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959576">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>this one seems somewhat relevant to rustc integration</p>



<a name="187959599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959599">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah let me look</p>



<a name="187959606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959606">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>but at least on the issue, it's unclear what needs to happen to "move forward"</p>



<a name="187959621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959621">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>some of the changes were made</p>



<a name="187959645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959645">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I <em>thought</em> it was "done", but saw in one of the docs I linked at the start there were some concrete plans that I don't think are done</p>



<a name="187959654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959654">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="187959707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959707">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I mean I think it's not <em>done</em>, but I think it's also not entirely clear what the desired end point is</p>



<a name="187959713"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959713" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959713">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, among other things:</p>



<a name="187959728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959728">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>well maybe best not to go into too many details</p>



<a name="187959753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959753">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably not :)</p>



<a name="187959781"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959781" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959781">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the big picture is that I think we should be using feedback from r-a and rustc integration to decide if the interface should change</p>



<a name="187959796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959796">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>this was kind of what I meant by "just try it"</p>



<a name="187959811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959811">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>like I said, these are probably mostly a "take a look and see if they can be closed, or if there's something actionable here"</p>



<a name="187959819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959819">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>this issue could plausibly be closed as sort of "not immediately actionable"</p>



<a name="187959839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959839">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is a good example of something I think that might live better on the "skill tree" level for the time being</p>



<a name="187959848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959848">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>since it's a bit far out</p>



<a name="187959855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959855">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably</p>



<a name="187959919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959919">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if 8 minutes is enough to really start another topic</p>



<a name="187959928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959928">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I'll just leave comments on the other list?</p>



<a name="187959940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959940">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>maybe I'll just leave comments on the other list?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="187959947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959947">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can do that, but I wanted to say that we should circle back to how we'll pick our "sprint topics" just a bit?</p>



<a name="187959950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959950">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though I'm super interested in your recursive solver idea</p>



<a name="187959955"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959955" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959955">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh yes I am too :P</p>



<a name="187959960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959960">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I was gonna do that</p>



<a name="187959994"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187959994" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187959994">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, like I said, I think if there's anything on the list that someone sees and <em>wants</em> to do, feel free to ping us?</p>



<a name="187960026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960026">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>But otherwise, we should probably identify a couple "goals" for the sprint</p>



<a name="187960168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960168">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I think that one goal is</p>
<ul>
<li>define long-term plans and get organized</li>
</ul>



<a name="187960184"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960184" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960184">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm hesitant to say "let's try to have chalk reintegrated with rustc" by the end of the 6 weeks</p>



<a name="187960187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960187">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think it's doable</p>



<a name="187960235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960235">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah that seems..ambitious, though I agree it may be do-able</p>



<a name="187960265"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960265" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960265">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I don't care that much about setting concrete "milestone" sorts of goals :)</p>



<a name="187960272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960272">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm more interested in "themes of work"</p>



<a name="187960281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960281">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I'm also ok to take a shot</p>



<a name="187960335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960335">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, one of the very chalk-centric themes I was thinking was sort of getting rid of some of the tech-debt that's built up</p>



<a name="187960383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960383">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I definitely think it'd be great to come up with refactoring like tasks</p>



<a name="187960411"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960411" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960411">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>as well as setting the stage to, once chalk <em>is</em> reintegrated into rustc, iterate on performance/bugs/etc.</p>



<a name="187960421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960421">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>to help in getting people up to speed and familiar with the codebase</p>



<a name="187960443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960443">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's what a few of mine are</p>



<a name="187960479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960479">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I should also add this: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/287" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/287">https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/287</a></p>



<a name="187960486"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960486" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960486">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>since that's seems somewhat easy</p>



<a name="187960518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960518">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>do we still want to aim to get a blog post or internals thread out?</p>



<a name="187960520"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960520" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960520">(Feb 11 2020 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to figure out how to very concretely handle these sprint cases...</p>



<a name="187960589"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960589" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960589">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>do we still want to aim to get a blog post or internals thread out?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would be ok with waiting until start of next sprint potentially</p>



<a name="187960613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960613">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like we're still figuring things out and we have a bunch of people here, we have to first show we can integrate those that are here?</p>



<a name="187960629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960629">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I also think it can't hurt, so if you want to write it, I'd merge it</p>



<a name="187960726"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960726" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960726">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm trying to figure out how to very concretely handle these sprint cases...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>like, should I open issues somewhere? make a zulip topic?</p>



<a name="187960727"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960727" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960727">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok I'll write up an outline and see if there's much worth saying</p>



<a name="187960772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960772">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>But it's just past the hour now</p>



<a name="187960803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960803">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I have another thing</p>



<a name="187960807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960807">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thank you everyone who attended :)</p>



<a name="187960883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960883">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>just a reminder to leave comments in <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--AuKt4REPM5dCV2EHJYBWGzj_Ag-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--AuKt4REPM5dCV2EHJYBWGzj_Ag-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW">the dropbox paper</a> on things you might want to do :) or ping in Zulip</p>



<a name="187960914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960914">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>just a reminder to leave comments in <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--AuKt4REPM5dCV2EHJYBWGzj_Ag-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-2020-sprint-planning--AuKt4REPM5dCV2EHJYBWGzj_Ag-SSt74TfcovdnKKhZNyzeW">the dropbox paper</a> on things you might want to do :) or ping in Zulip</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, I'm around most of the time, even if <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> isn't</p>



<a name="187960930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960930">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm trying to figure out how to very concretely handle these sprint cases...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>like, should I open issues somewhere? make a zulip topic?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What do you mean with sprint cases?</p>



<a name="187960967"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187960967" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187960967">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I just mean "tasks"</p>



<a name="187961033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961033">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, I missed that</p>



<a name="187961058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961058">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>zulip topics might get buried, but are easier to discuss things in</p>



<a name="187961095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961095">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if there are chalk-specific things, it can go into a new labeled chalk issue</p>



<a name="187961113"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961113" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961113">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>but everything should go to a wg-traits project?</p>



<a name="187961124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961124">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the well-defined tasks go in issues, and the rest gets discussed first on zulip?</p>



<a name="187961199"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961199" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961199">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think "well-defined" is hard to define</p>



<a name="187961444"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961444" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961444">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not sure whether we really need everything in issues to start off</p>



<a name="187961496"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961496" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961496">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Eh, I'm of the opposite mind. Issues mean things don't get lost</p>



<a name="187961525"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187961525" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187961525">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>As long as there's something "actionable" I guess</p>



<a name="187963613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187963613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187963613">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I added some comments to the dropbox paper but I'm mostly going to defer to yall's judgment on where I should start hacking away</p>



<a name="187963646"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187963646" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187963646">(Feb 11 2020 at 22:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay that was tightly packed, i have to admit that i didn't get everything, but i think it'll get better with time? I'll have some sleep and come back tomorrow to this :)</p>



<a name="187966275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187966275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187966275">(Feb 11 2020 at 23:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sorry i just realized that my choice of words was inadequate at best, i didn't realize the colloquial meaning at first, language is hard</p>



<a name="187966907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187966907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187966907">(Feb 11 2020 at 23:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Sorry i just realized that my choice of words was inadequate at best, i didn't realize the colloquial meaning at first, language is hard</p>
</blockquote>
<p>no worries <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="187999419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/187999419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#187999419">(Feb 12 2020 at 10:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess if people wnt suggestions on where to start, we can certainly make some :)</p>



<a name="188013619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/188013619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#188013619">(Feb 12 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm interested in the <code>ty::Predicate</code> refactorings :)</p>
<p>It's currently a bit hard to allocate continuous chunks of time for working on this though and i don't want to block anything on me<br>
So if you'd estimate this to be rather time intensive for someone not familiar with the rustc codebase, i'd probably take a pass for this sprint.</p>



<a name="188013695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/188013695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matprec <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#188013695">(Feb 12 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>In that case, you can also point at some stuff for me to have a look or document in the meantime, so that i get familiar without blocking anything :)</p>



<a name="188018093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meetting%202020.02.11/near/188018093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meetting.202020.2E02.2E11.html#188018093">(Feb 12 2020 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yea please <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span></p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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